Johnny Dawes Interview

Curiosity and Persistence & The Natural Order

Photo by Craig Smith: Johnny bouldering in Manchester

Curiosity and persistence

Johnny Dawes is a living legend. Not only did he bring the country its first E8 and E9, he captivated everyone with HOW he climbed. His routes to this day inspire stories and feelings, even if you've never set foot on them. As much as anything, he was and is an innovator of climbing movement. You only have to watch the film 'Stone Monkey' to see that the moves that are common place in World Cup Bouldering competitions now, Johnny was doing back in 1986.

Obviously I wanted to gain a deeper insight into how Johnny looks at, imagines and executes a climb. When we spoke beforehand, he told me that the two key factors that got him up routes were curiosity and persistence, so we settled on that topic to chat about. What is clear to me is that climbing and movement for Johnny is a deeply immersive process wrapped up in his every day happenings. "It seems like your imagination makes the world how you want". Enjoy.

The natural order

Here is the second part of my interview with Johnny Dawes. We speak about his more recent ascent of Inuit, 8b+ in Spain (let alone a no hands ascent of an 8a there). I start by asking whether he used curiosity and persistence (see first interview) on this climb. Here Johnny refers to his direct relationship with climbing; where for him, his aim is to get his ‘being’ up a climb, not just his body. That certainly explains the very embodied climbing performances we’ve come to know from him.

He brings up the fascinating concept of the “natural order”, something I’ve come to think about more recently (see Body Mind Mastery by Dan Millman). “The whole thing works really easily if we accept nature as it is”. The analogy is with nature, but it’s true if we apply that to the human body too – ultimately where the body and mind are aligned. He sums it up here: “It’s a different approach to control. It’s control by understanding the way things are, rather than not very well how they are and making it how they should be.” And oh yes, we recorded this the day Stirling Moss died (Johnny’s tribute, he’s a huge racing fan).